Trigger warning: This podcast episode contains content about suicide.
We're getting a bit more woo-woo in this episode (because we're the Open Mind Space), and we're talking about what we believe happens when we cross over.
Who actually knows what happens when we pass? Well, Renee feels that she does - although she doesn't have a personal experience of having done it, she's spent the past few decades hearing from those who have.
We first want to mention the stories and dogmas that religions hold around crossing over as, we believe, ways to assist human morality (or, possibly more accurately, control!) and to create comfort.
There's an old saying: "Milk for babes, meat for men", referencing the New Testament's Hebrews ("…for everyone who lives on milk, being still an infant, is unskilled in the word of righteousness. But meat is for the mature, for those whose faculties have been trained by practice to distinguish good from evil." (Hebrews 5:13-14)). We look at this as a story telling us that "if you do good things, you'll go to good places" - because if the general population were told stories of an afterlife, people would feel despondent and discouraged and therefore be more difficult to control - whereas others would receive the "meat", or something to really chew upon and consider.
We both believe that there's more to dying.
Murray believes that our passing is part of a contract: that what will or can take place when we do pass over is based upon the many paths we take based upon the choices we make in our lifetime. That, based on how our choices alter and redirect our path, we're either granted a graceful passing or we're instead held to account somewhat.
Renee, based on what she has been told by the spirits and energies in other realms (beyond our physical, 3D world), understands that when our physical form ceases, our spirit or soul consciousness continues to exist, and that there's a moment (although time is no longer linear) for reflection or a 'reporting back', or to integrate the experiences we had in our human form. She also believes that for some this integration time might be longer - where perhaps some accountability is needed, for example.
Renee, therefore, believes that we have two main paths when we pass. Firstly, we:
speak to the angels or guides in the waiting room (also known as 'the light')
are assisted through the integration process
return into the oneness or source
and then navigate our individualised consciousness (because consciousness is constantly seeking to experience itself), at which point we might be sent back again
Or, maybe instead, we get stuck somewhere in between, in limbo, fighting this. Especially if our death was traumatic or confusing or sudden. Even though our physical body and form no longer exists, there's a difficulty in letting go of the human identity. The physical plane continues to evolve, but we are stuck in the time we physically existed (with timelines overlapping), which can be incredibly traumatic in itself.
Murray considers whether the lesson in preventing the latter comes down to the yogic principle of non-attachment. And Renee, who's been presented with several moments where she's been given the option to leave this realm, to step out, or to not return, agrees.
Murray speaks of one of his most terrifying experiences, which involved creating and smoking plant-based DMT (or Dimethyltryptamine - one of the strongest known psychedelic or hallucinogenic drugs) with a friend. While his friend pulled out early, Murray kept going and had the full dose. The experience resulted in his spirit beginning to leave his body, and Murray having a very clear (and very painful) sense of saying goodbye to Renee, to his family, to his friends, and to this world, as he moved towards the light. What was probably only 15 minutes in real time felt like lifetimes, as Murray's deep realisation of having f**ked up set in. He realised that he still had so much to do here, and was able to - with everything he had - pull himself back.
Pretty important sidenote here: if you're considering plant medicine, you really need to know what you're doing! And you need to be guided by someone who knows what they're doing. The experiences can be deeply potent, and can, at times, be quite traumatic - and these traumatic experiences (like Murray's) stay in the nervous system and need integration.
This experience for Murray really highlighted the lesson of non-attachment. He learnt at that moment that he has some very deep attachments - many of them healthy.
Murray also experiences many moments, even now, where the thought creeps in that possibly he actually hasn't come back. That the timeline can be confusing if we're not ready to pass and/or we have too many attachments. And Murray truly believes that there's a very small group of people able to have experience with non-attachment - and has the awareness that it's okay to have an attachment to things in this lifetime.
Renee ponders on whether non-attachment is actually understanding that nothing is real and that illusions and projections come and go. She asks Murray, "What if we're all floating in the void?" And, as Murray says, we are!
Renee also acknowledges Murray's ability to see that space, and hold that awareness, as so many can't - they go mad or tap out, or become ungrounded, or seek to constantly numb themselves instead. Sometimes we see behind the veil, and, when the human mind isn't comfortable with that, it can feel like a glitch.
So, there you have it. That covers - to a certain degree - our thoughts and understandings around what happens when we cross over. Stay tuned for Part 2 on entering other dimensions.
And, in the meantime, cross over a little! Enjoy the exploration!